Joe, this feels like you should write a book about the history about the various historical themes and eras of comics. I have been thinking about the very same topic of the generational elements of comics and the influence of the on creatives in the corporate comics landscape. At 47 who has read comics for 37 of those years in an unbroken manner, all I see is influences now. It is fun in that way.
You want to hear a curious thing? This whole idea of luxurious editions, hardcovers with gold paint, collecting endless re-runs in a series of TPB editions over the years was... how Jack Kirby envisioned the comic book future.
He wanted the market to be all about this! Unfortunately he was too old and died first.
The “influence loops” are closed for a while now when it comes to artists. They are no longer influenced by their predecessors, but by other things like the cal tech style or that pool of generic instagram artists that learned to draw on youtube that Marvel seem to like so much. Their arent that many good new writers around at the big two.
I was a huge fan of Starman, which is one of the best nostalgia comics of its' day. Following James Robinson led me to your work. I personally love the nostalgia genre, as you call it.
I think the real issue with gaining newer, younger readers is the "competition" with Manga. Manga is comics, right? I'm not sure how to say what I'm thinking, there. Perhaps that is a different conversation.
I have a 29 year old daughter. She reads comics. She loves Starman, too, BTW. But she does not buy the monthly books. She reads graphic novels. And she prefers small press books to anything from Marvel or DC.
Consider Earth-2: Like on our Earth, pulp magazines that were once popular in the 1930s couldn’t compete with other media (paperback novels, comics, and television). On our Earth, the pulp era ended in 1949, but on Earth-2, an active pulp fandom was able to establish a direct market distribution process that catered to pulp fans; the pulps survived past 1949.
In the 1950s, new writers crafted tales that pleased pulp fans, but also pushed the creative envelope. Ray Bradbury figured out that so long as you have Ham and Monk verbally assault one another, you can do anything with Doc Savage, and Bradbury’s presentation of Savage as a lonely superhuman in a post-crisis world is poignant literature. Philip K. Dick sent The Shadow on a reign of terror while exploring the character’s struggle with a dissociative disorder.
But most pulp content remained formulaic (fans liked G-8’s adventures just fine, thank you). By the 1960s, Street & Smith was willing to take some chances. Harlan Ellison wrote controversial tales about The Avenger before his editor fired him. Michael Moorcock titillated fans with his fast-paced Doc Savage adventures, while deftly hinting that Ham and Monk might be lovers.
But fandom did not embrace all creative changes. Sales dropped when Ursula Le Guin transformed The Shadow’s girlfriend Margo Lane into a strong 1970s feminist character. Also, sales were increasingly reliant on “event publications” where the heroes and characters from different magazines interacted with one another, and readers' deep knowledge of pulp fiction’s narrative continuity was required, along with the finances to buy multiple magazines to get the whole story. Such as the “Secret Conflicts” event of 1982, in which The Shadow, Doc Savage, The Avenger and other pulp heroes band together to stop Shiwan Khan and John Sunlight from destroying Manhattan.
But despite these limitations, the pulps endure on Earth-2, just as superhero comics endure on our Earth, thanks to this often insular fandom. Which suggests that despite its imposed creative and commercial constraints, fandom is an important aspect of perpetuating a genre and medium that might not otherwise survive.
This is a great write up from something I and some of my friends have discussed for years. It was one thing in theory to ID the influences on new writers, a whole other thing to see writers nostalgic for the 90s X-Men and Warren Ellis comics we loved.
Currently I know painfully few comic collectors or readers in my immediate area but FCBD at my local shop (which aside from two shops I can recall has been the only shop in town for 30+ years) did give me a little hope.
There were collectors, sure, and I was in there grabbing every 90s Image, Death’s Head 2, and Deathlok - yes, your run - issue I didn’t have. To my shock, there were quite a few kids in there wanting the free books. Not just because they were free, but from my eavesdropping sounded like they knew which ones they were after.
Most everyone I know from my younger days have moved into being straight collectors, resellers, or out of comics altogether. I guess my point is (this is why I don’t comment much 😂) it’s sad and I don’t what can or will fix it. I’ve been in and out of comics since around 1988/1989 but I always come back because there’s nothing else like them. Still buy some new but mostly search out 90s books that I come across or books I wanted as a kid but never could get them.
To finish on your point, the books I’m enjoying the most these days - Weapon X-Men, Youngblood, Blood Squad Seven, Transformers, Absolute Batman, Spawn…are either nostalgic for me or the same ones I was reading all of those years back. The vast majority of superhero books just don’t hit me like they did in the 90s. If they did, I’d definitely buy more.
I would say 3: readers, collectors and speculators.
I sold my collection ages ago - but still do a weekly trip to the comic store. I read and dispose (or give away) most of my comics now. I have a small bookshelf of trades of some nostalgic perennials. So I am not a collector but a regular reader.
And love them or hate them - speculators are a big part of the market: slabbed books, key comics, high grade, etc. They are big customers that stores and publishers have to cater to.
Amazing write ups
Cool
💯🤩
This is awesome
I agree with you 100%
Joe, this feels like you should write a book about the history about the various historical themes and eras of comics. I have been thinking about the very same topic of the generational elements of comics and the influence of the on creatives in the corporate comics landscape. At 47 who has read comics for 37 of those years in an unbroken manner, all I see is influences now. It is fun in that way.
You want to hear a curious thing? This whole idea of luxurious editions, hardcovers with gold paint, collecting endless re-runs in a series of TPB editions over the years was... how Jack Kirby envisioned the comic book future.
He wanted the market to be all about this! Unfortunately he was too old and died first.
Crazy, isn’t?
The “influence loops” are closed for a while now when it comes to artists. They are no longer influenced by their predecessors, but by other things like the cal tech style or that pool of generic instagram artists that learned to draw on youtube that Marvel seem to like so much. Their arent that many good new writers around at the big two.
I was a huge fan of Starman, which is one of the best nostalgia comics of its' day. Following James Robinson led me to your work. I personally love the nostalgia genre, as you call it.
I think the real issue with gaining newer, younger readers is the "competition" with Manga. Manga is comics, right? I'm not sure how to say what I'm thinking, there. Perhaps that is a different conversation.
I have a 29 year old daughter. She reads comics. She loves Starman, too, BTW. But she does not buy the monthly books. She reads graphic novels. And she prefers small press books to anything from Marvel or DC.
Consider Earth-2: Like on our Earth, pulp magazines that were once popular in the 1930s couldn’t compete with other media (paperback novels, comics, and television). On our Earth, the pulp era ended in 1949, but on Earth-2, an active pulp fandom was able to establish a direct market distribution process that catered to pulp fans; the pulps survived past 1949.
In the 1950s, new writers crafted tales that pleased pulp fans, but also pushed the creative envelope. Ray Bradbury figured out that so long as you have Ham and Monk verbally assault one another, you can do anything with Doc Savage, and Bradbury’s presentation of Savage as a lonely superhuman in a post-crisis world is poignant literature. Philip K. Dick sent The Shadow on a reign of terror while exploring the character’s struggle with a dissociative disorder.
But most pulp content remained formulaic (fans liked G-8’s adventures just fine, thank you). By the 1960s, Street & Smith was willing to take some chances. Harlan Ellison wrote controversial tales about The Avenger before his editor fired him. Michael Moorcock titillated fans with his fast-paced Doc Savage adventures, while deftly hinting that Ham and Monk might be lovers.
But fandom did not embrace all creative changes. Sales dropped when Ursula Le Guin transformed The Shadow’s girlfriend Margo Lane into a strong 1970s feminist character. Also, sales were increasingly reliant on “event publications” where the heroes and characters from different magazines interacted with one another, and readers' deep knowledge of pulp fiction’s narrative continuity was required, along with the finances to buy multiple magazines to get the whole story. Such as the “Secret Conflicts” event of 1982, in which The Shadow, Doc Savage, The Avenger and other pulp heroes band together to stop Shiwan Khan and John Sunlight from destroying Manhattan.
But despite these limitations, the pulps endure on Earth-2, just as superhero comics endure on our Earth, thanks to this often insular fandom. Which suggests that despite its imposed creative and commercial constraints, fandom is an important aspect of perpetuating a genre and medium that might not otherwise survive.
This is a great write up from something I and some of my friends have discussed for years. It was one thing in theory to ID the influences on new writers, a whole other thing to see writers nostalgic for the 90s X-Men and Warren Ellis comics we loved.
Warning - I Ramble Uncontrollably
Currently I know painfully few comic collectors or readers in my immediate area but FCBD at my local shop (which aside from two shops I can recall has been the only shop in town for 30+ years) did give me a little hope.
There were collectors, sure, and I was in there grabbing every 90s Image, Death’s Head 2, and Deathlok - yes, your run - issue I didn’t have. To my shock, there were quite a few kids in there wanting the free books. Not just because they were free, but from my eavesdropping sounded like they knew which ones they were after.
Most everyone I know from my younger days have moved into being straight collectors, resellers, or out of comics altogether. I guess my point is (this is why I don’t comment much 😂) it’s sad and I don’t what can or will fix it. I’ve been in and out of comics since around 1988/1989 but I always come back because there’s nothing else like them. Still buy some new but mostly search out 90s books that I come across or books I wanted as a kid but never could get them.
To finish on your point, the books I’m enjoying the most these days - Weapon X-Men, Youngblood, Blood Squad Seven, Transformers, Absolute Batman, Spawn…are either nostalgic for me or the same ones I was reading all of those years back. The vast majority of superhero books just don’t hit me like they did in the 90s. If they did, I’d definitely buy more.
Managed to track down all nine issues of Automatic Kafka - whens your final post on it?
There are two distinct purchasers of comics.
Readers & Collectors.
Too many people want to send off 32 pages of creation and get it put into an encasement where they can look at a cover and an advert on the back.
Too few want to experience the wonder you can get from a page turn.
I want to get that serialised wonder.
I want the writer and artist to hit me with emotion.
Give me a rollercoaster with paper and ink.
I don't give a flying fig about a bit of plastic with a 9.8 label.
I would say 3: readers, collectors and speculators.
I sold my collection ages ago - but still do a weekly trip to the comic store. I read and dispose (or give away) most of my comics now. I have a small bookshelf of trades of some nostalgic perennials. So I am not a collector but a regular reader.
And love them or hate them - speculators are a big part of the market: slabbed books, key comics, high grade, etc. They are big customers that stores and publishers have to cater to.
Totally agree.